Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

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ben_issacs
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Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by ben_issacs » 16 Oct 2018, 09:41

Folks,
Are the Chinese bogie open wagons, P 64 etc. painted inside, and if so what is the colour, same as externally?
And if they are painted internally, how long would the paint last after a few loads of coal or gravel or whatever has been dumped in the wagon?
I suspect that after a while, the interior would be basically bare steel, with some paint and a certain amount of rust.
People do excellent work on weathering their models externally, but do they give any thought to what the inside of an empty open wagon looks like?
Or do they always run loaded wagons?
Regards,
Bill.
Melbourne.

TEAMYAKIMA
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by TEAMYAKIMA » 16 Oct 2018, 10:28

Interesting question.

The majority of my C64k gondolas ( I have 89 of them!) have loads - for the moment all the empty ones are black as that is the easy option! Maybe will put more thought into this when everything else on the layout is finished, but for now it's just black.

ben_issacs
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by ben_issacs » 17 Oct 2018, 02:56

Teamyakiinama,
In the days when the Victorian Railways ran trains of four wheel steel open wagons I almost always observed them from ground level, so couldn't see what the insides looked like.
Now it's all box vans or container flats, so no chance to see open wagon interiors.
I suspect that the old timber bodied four wheelers, not seen in China, of course, were painted grey inside, which probably soon wore off to the timber.
The same query must apply to steel open wagons all over the world, what do their insides look like?
Standard BR steel open wagons? When modelled in plastic, the interior is the plastic self colour usually.
It's a long time since I was in China, I can't remember seeing any wagons with tarpaulin covers, were these used there, I think that the opens had lashing rings along their sides, so tarps must have been considered.
Come on, fellers, put something else than coal or stone in your open wagons, logs, boxes, machinery, scrap iron (difficult to model), vehicles.
Regards,
Bill,
Melbourne.

ben_issacs
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by ben_issacs » 17 Oct 2018, 03:00

Teamyakima,
My apologies for mis-spelling your nom-de-electronique in my previous post.
Regards,
Bill,
Melbourne.

TEAMYAKIMA
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by TEAMYAKIMA » 17 Oct 2018, 07:30

Come on, fellers, put something else than coal or stone in your open wagons, logs, boxes, machinery, scrap iron (difficult to model), vehicles.
Regards,
Bill,
Melbourne.[/quote]

Yes, scrap iron is difficult - that is yet to be attempted - but how about this ?

Image

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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by ben_issacs » 18 Oct 2018, 03:05

Teamyakima,
Yes, that's pretty good, I can remember seeing this sort of loading in open wagons during my China visits.
Something different from the eternal coal load!
Regards,
Bill,
Melbourne.

ben_issacs
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by ben_issacs » 21 Oct 2018, 02:48

Teamyakima,
I wonder if those logs were cut to such a length for a special purpose (if so, What?), or just to get three bundles neatly into an open wagon?.
They seem too long for pit props or fence posts.
Regards,
Bill,
Melbourne.

galaxy_gfx
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by galaxy_gfx » 24 Oct 2018, 13:49

Just to add my 2 cents' worth:

In most cases, open wagons are originally painted the same color inside. From what I've seen, this is also the case in China. The way the paint wears down, however, can depend very much on what is shipped in the wagons most of the time.

Scrap metal and big chunks of rock can cause deep scratches in the paint, from which flaking and rust will gradually spread. The pattern here is quite the same as with paint discontinuities on the outside.

Gravel, sand and coal cause rather even wear, resulting in large, almost homogeneous worn/rusty surfaces with somewhat irregular rims. Sometimes, a band of primer will also show as the result of gradual wear. Being mostly a shade of oxyde red, this is blending in well with rust, however. Worn spots are likely to highlight the frame structure due to the sheet metal sides being more yielding to load than the struts of the side frame.

One thing deserving special attention is the discoloration caused by the transported material sticking to the sides - this is also likely to apply to the outsides below the unloading hatches.

Although not from China, but here are some photos showing wear and rust on the inside of open wagons:

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschla ... 011in.html
http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschla ... s-027.html
http://www.dybas.de/dybas/gw/gw_e_0/g069.html
http://karow900.startbilder.de/bild/db~ ... t-der.html
http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/ungarn~gu ... en-am.html

In addition to surface wear, there is one more thing that is typically omitted in models: the doors and hatches that would show on the inside. Chinese open wagons have a whole lot of unloading hatches along the side walls, and even full-height doors do not have a flush inner surface. Modelling empty C series wagons is, therefore, not that easy if this level of realism is addressed.

Cheers,
Zsolt

ben_issacs
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by ben_issacs » 26 Oct 2018, 07:54

Zsolt,
An excellent set of shots showing the interior of German open wagons.
From these, one can say that in general the interiors have lost most of their paint and are largely rusty, a colour slightly different from the external red-brown.
Although the first shot seems to show a greyish colour, query bare metal, un rusted, or paint, un-scratched?
The top edges of the sides are also worth looking at, they too get scraped.
An even more trenchant comment is the one regarding the actual internal detail of the wagon sides and ends.
The German wagons are simple in they mostly have flat sides, but the Chinese wagons, with their multiple strengthening impressions, Oh, Dear!
Very difficult to replicate with ordinary moulding techniques.
I guess could be done by moulding the sides and ends separately and assembling them to the frame, and accepting the out-of-scale side thicknesses
So perhaps we should only run loaded open wagons to conceal the internal inaccuracies!
Have I opened a can of worms here!
Regards,
Bill,
Melbourne.

TEAMYAKIMA
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Re: Internal colour of Chinese open wagons?

Post by TEAMYAKIMA » 26 Oct 2018, 08:03

Bill

I think it's just something you have to accept - Haidar do a fully detailed C64 coal car with opening doors in brass - it's on ebay.com at the moment at $250 (US) - I have a rake of 24 empty coal cars - I won't be upgrading!

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